tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post6385038552630515227..comments2023-12-19T09:50:44.504-08:00Comments on Write First, Clean Later: Why I Put Down a NovelL.J. Sellershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-31219828846217111582009-01-08T07:10:00.000-08:002009-01-08T07:10:00.000-08:00I agree with too many characters. If I have to fl...I agree with too many characters. If I have to flip back a chapter to remember who's who, I'll find something else to read.<BR/><BR/>More recently, I've been turned off by first person POV. Not everyone can write this POV well and it's simply not appropriate for some stories. <BR/><BR/>Don't get me wrong, I use it myself, but sparingly. I don't want every novel I read to come off sounding like a memoir.<BR/><BR/>~PiaPia Velenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13520764865758564003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-30563842190959986962009-01-07T05:10:00.000-08:002009-01-07T05:10:00.000-08:00The characters have to grab my interest in the fir...The characters have to grab my interest in the first chapter or the goes down. I've waded through some very long, boring passages describing bubbling brooks and soft forest breezes hoping to find some interesting people. If they don't show up by the end of chapter 1, I'm out of patience. <BR/><BR/>Great blog Lj. It's given me idea for a follow-up - and it's not about sex.Charlotte Phillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09336641340221491792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-66572582572350786702009-01-06T13:44:00.000-08:002009-01-06T13:44:00.000-08:00For me, it depends on the context and how well it'...For me, it depends on the context and how well it's done. I've read some that were more graphic but didn't seem like it because they were so well and tastefully written, and I've read others that were less graphic that just made me say, "Ew."Jaden Terrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11113218513166921429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-82822107538934859432009-01-06T13:31:00.000-08:002009-01-06T13:31:00.000-08:00More evidence pointing to how subjective the readi...More evidence pointing to how subjective the reading experience is. And clearly "graphic sex" means different things to different people. I won't even try to define my label. I'm no longer sure.L.J. Sellershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-55303506738876157772009-01-06T12:06:00.000-08:002009-01-06T12:06:00.000-08:00I have to weigh in on the gratuitous graphic sex c...I have to weigh in on the gratuitous graphic sex comment, because, in my first book, my detective is seduced and then framed for a murder by a woman who plants his DNA at a crime scene. I tried to handle the scene tastefully, but felt that it needed to be there. Later, there's another intimate scene that's pivotal to the plot. The narrator leads up to the moment where the characters decide to have sex (both are still fully clothed), then picks up the narrative again afterward. <BR/><BR/>Several people later said to me, "I noticed that you have some very graphic sex scenes!" Others said, "You know, I noticed that your sex scenes aren't very graphic."Jaden Terrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11113218513166921429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-44914395896215514482009-01-05T21:57:00.000-08:002009-01-05T21:57:00.000-08:00I suspect my grandmother's accounts of the Great D...I suspect my grandmother's accounts of the Great Depression rubbed off on me in a million ways. It's hard to leave food on my plate because someone else might be hungry. The same way, it's hard to walk out of a movie or put down a book I've paid for. You just don't waste things. I'll stick with a bad book/movie to the bitter end, even if I'm not enamored. <BR/><BR/>This is why I finished Neuromancer, even though it was a cold, nihilistic story that left me feeling empty. I even made two of my friends read it to see if I was mistaken. I wasn't.Gayle Carlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783449240138097315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-91111799897628932902009-01-05T19:53:00.000-08:002009-01-05T19:53:00.000-08:00I'm not fond of explicit sex in novels. I don't wa...I'm not fond of explicit sex in novels. I don't want to read where the lips wandered, sorry. It will make me put the book down. Also, too many dangling thoughts... that make me want to scream, "What? Tell me, don't just leave me dangling!" Lately, I've found an overuse of italics for the protagonist's thoughts, many of which don't add to the character or move the plot forward. They pull me out of the story. Finally, foul language or overdone vernacular. Those are my least favorites, because it's just too much work to plow through tiresome dialogue. <BR/><BR/>Yeah, and sex. Too much of it puts that to the top of the list. I think it's why I read cozy mystery that has a little romance. I'm just too old for any kind of gore. :)<BR/><BR/>Dani<BR/>Join my brand-new group:<BR/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/booktoscreenplayDanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-23096183898188577692009-01-05T14:25:00.000-08:002009-01-05T14:25:00.000-08:00I never called it smut. Let's not forget that I wr...I never called it smut. Let's not forget that I wrote a novel called THE SEX CLUB. Also I'm an editor, who has clients who write erotica. And that convention should have been at the bottom of the list. I'd much rather have too much sex than too much description, especially the clothing detail Romanuks mentioned.L.J. Sellershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-29146525362680335902009-01-05T13:59:00.000-08:002009-01-05T13:59:00.000-08:00A novelist friend of mine said, "In Coitus Veritas...A novelist friend of mine said, "In Coitus Veritas." People can be at their most vulnerable when they're having sex, and sometimes there's no better way to illustrate some element of character, or to pivot a relationship, than to have it happen in the heat of a sexual encounter.<BR/><BR/>Part of this whole question may hinge on what you mean by "detailed." One person's gratuitous smut is another person's tasteful rendering.Nobilis Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02619601142783473136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-21199304415306557602009-01-05T13:24:00.000-08:002009-01-05T13:24:00.000-08:00L.J., What really ticks me off about a novel is wh...L.J., <BR/>What really ticks me off about a novel is when they explain in pain staking detail what the character is wearing. Unless it has something to do with the storyline I find it useless..<BR/>For example: Her shoes were leather and brown which matched her khaki pants, she wore an anklet of gold and her tshirt was so crisp and clean and blue. She would have worn a blue hat but it wouldnt have gone with her shoes so she decided to wear her tan sun hat which featured a delicate rose on the side yada yada yada...Who cares..Romanukshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02445165314338399813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-52873324683471535482009-01-05T11:26:00.000-08:002009-01-05T11:26:00.000-08:00I knew someone would take issue with the sex scene...I knew someone would take issue with the sex scene reference. But I did say "detailed graphic sex scenes" not all sex scenes. I should have added romance to my exceptions. For crime stories, long sex scenes seem unnecessary ... to me.L.J. Sellershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-35072724901224402632009-01-05T10:59:00.000-08:002009-01-05T10:59:00.000-08:00"Detailed graphic sex scenes (They’re all gratuito..."Detailed graphic sex scenes (They’re all gratuitous unless you write erotica)"<BR/><BR/>*All* detailed sex scenes are gratuitous, unless the book is in the erotica ghetto? I agree that a sex scene can very easily be gratuitous, but on the other hand so can a food scene. <BR/><BR/>It's one thing to say, "I don't like detailed sex scenes, I always put down a book when I find them," that's just a matter of taste, and certainly inarguable.<BR/><BR/>It's quite another to say, "Unless the book is specifically written to titillate, then no sex scene is ever needed." I'm sorry. That's just way too broad a statement to leave out there.Nobilis Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02619601142783473136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-59657985681564928282009-01-05T10:52:00.000-08:002009-01-05T10:52:00.000-08:00I confess, LJ, TSC is still on my TBR pile on the ...I confess, LJ, TSC is still on my TBR pile on the bedside table, so no, it wasn't directed at you.<BR/><BR/>In dialogue, one character to another, it's different. <BR/><BR/>In fact, Spider Robinson did a book in which people constantly remarked about the main character's resemblance to a certain celebrity, which in the end provided an explanation of a very weird (and probably forgotten by now) news story featuring that celebrity. It was pretty funny.JD Rhoadeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07123361739160525998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-26440438927924881542009-01-05T09:58:00.000-08:002009-01-05T09:58:00.000-08:00JDI did that once in The Sex Club and wondered if ...JD<BR/>I did that once in The Sex Club and wondered if that's what you were referring to. Interestingly, in a list serv discussion on this subject, some readers said they don't like this convention (saying a character resembles someone famous), yet others readers said it helps them visualize the character. For sure, I'll never do it again.<BR/>Question for discussion: What if a character says it in dialogue? People do this in real life all the time.L.J. Sellershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213491074676394406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-91061566495219724782009-01-05T09:44:00.000-08:002009-01-05T09:44:00.000-08:00"Historical" fiction where there appears to have b..."Historical" fiction where there appears to have been no attempt at basic research into the historical era.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-36120138306113403212009-01-05T09:18:00.000-08:002009-01-05T09:18:00.000-08:00This doesn't always kill the book for me, but one ...This doesn't always kill the book for me, but one thing that severely wounds it is a description of a character that compares him or her to a movie or TV star, e.g. "he looked like an older/younger/blonde Harrison Ford." It's just lazy.JD Rhoadeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07123361739160525998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-74106619222411744732009-01-05T08:23:00.000-08:002009-01-05T08:23:00.000-08:00Great points! I would add that I have to care abou...Great points! I would add that I have to care about the characters - I'll put up with a lot in terms of overall writing as long as the characters draw me in and make me want to know more. I don't have to like the characters or agree with their choices, but they have to be richly drawn enough to make me want to keep reading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-20271405657690866192009-01-05T07:27:00.000-08:002009-01-05T07:27:00.000-08:00All of the above except for the last one (since I ...All of the above except for the last one (since I write thrillers!)<BR/><BR/>How about a novel touted as "literary" but has pedestrian prose an eighth grader could have written.<BR/><BR/>If a book has no plot, fits no obvious genre, they wrongly call it "literary" as to just plain old "fiction" (like they did in the old days in bookstores).Josephine Damianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17952030380866201241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-90326290516775313852009-01-05T07:17:00.000-08:002009-01-05T07:17:00.000-08:00All of the above and then some, including bad edit...All of the above and then some, including bad editing, grammar and missed spelling mistake. And don't get me started on the serial-comma usage.<BR/><BR/>It's funny you should write this post, as my friend and KBV colleague, Mark, and I have been writing about this very subject, and just how many submissions we receive so full of plots holes you could drive a bus through them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3527790096547842654.post-52265027281066862422009-01-04T20:53:00.000-08:002009-01-04T20:53:00.000-08:00Intriguing. I think that warrants a post. I was ...Intriguing. I think that warrants a post. I was just trying to come up with something to write about seeing my day was rather "ho hum" for blogging purposes. That's a great one!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com